Official Luthiers Forum!

2 days either week or week end, cover the high points of building a guitar with some hands on...question and answer time...preferably in Collierville, TN.. ...I have flight benefits, but the airline's bankrupt, so I may be faced with no benefits, no $$ soon! Heck of it is, I'll need to really step up the guitar building to make up the difference, but without these fine classes where will I get the intellect luthieristcally speaking, of course! (I think I just made a new word ).

_________________
http://www.presnallguitars.com

I like Bryan's idea...and after meeting him and seeing his facility it is the perfect setup. Long weekends would be my preference. I'd be interested in voicing, setup, intonation and finishing for starters.

This could be sooo coooool!

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Ok.

Here is what I understand that I am hearing.

There is one faction that prefers a long weekend and a skills specific course. Perhaps intonation, or something like that.

And another group wants an intermediate class (topic tbd) and would attend if it were a M-F type of session?

It seems that the overwhelming majority of those who responded are interested. Keep giving Lance and I your feedback and perhaps we can see if we can't get something going.

And, if these are popular, perhaps we can begin to run them as interest and time permit.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

This could turn out to be just for the rich and famous. Collierville sounds fine to me, or even Odessa. I drive across Texas every year or so for a week long banjo workshop. (playing, not building)

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Brock & Lance,
Any comments on my post about an online live video feed for those of us that may not be able to attend. For a nominal fee, of course.

Brock:

While I would love the opportunity to take training the challenge is always time, travel and of course cost.

Havin said that I do have an alternate idea for your consideration.

I do a good amount of consulting with my customers and internal staff using gotomeeting.com.

Essentially, this is an on-line meeting with conference call link. While I realize you cannot accomplish the same as eyeball to eyeball training, this has been an excellent tool for us.

The instructor could schedule 1-2 hour sessions (which is about the length most people can tolerate). Tools like Power Point (or even a phot image application) are used to make points, show pics of relavent information, and this is backed up with live discussion via conference call.

It is very easy to run, and easy to use.

Someone like Rob Obrian, who has developed training using this approach (on DVD) would be excellent for this type of approach.

It is also easy to test the idea if you want. gotomeeting is $50 per month and unlimited meetings, not sure about size of audience - there may be some limits there based on price.

Each person is sent an email with meeting info which they then click on and are brought to the meeting.

The facilitator has full control of his/her keyboard but also has ability to pass control to other participants. Example: If you were doing a training on setting neck, and there were multiple presenters to address multiple approaches, faciliator makes presentation and then passes control of keyboard, or even passes control of computer to the other presenter.

It all works off the presenter computer which can be passed between presenters so each presenter could prepare their piece independently.

My company is already a subscriber and I the owner of the site so if you and a few others wanted to test this idea, a meeting could literally be set up in minutes.

The conference call (telephone call) is simply a cost to each participant and billed like any long distance call so the only expense for the instructor (or OLF) is the meeting subscription ($50/mo)

You can also buy the subscription on a month to month basis, allowing you to run a series of courses in one month and then suspending the service if there was going to be a span of months in between.

My guess is that many of us have day jobs - and some of us (me) travel extensively as it is so this might be a good alternative, or and approach in addition to live training.

It is pretty cost effective to pay the cost of the phone call and some meeting cost as well to compensate instructors. May be a way for OLF to fund other projects or cost of maintaining the site.

Feel free to call me if you want to discuss on the land line. My phone is: 518-842-5344

I am in today and out most of next week.

P.S. Didn't mean to plug just one instructor. I have bought John Mayes DVD's (all of them) and he is also an excellent instructor and probably has all the tools which he uses to do his DVD's. There are also many others that have areas of expertise and different approaches that could/would contribute.

I used Rob Obrian as an example as his training course on DVD is essentially made up of stills and narration which is what this type of training would be, but allowing for questions, answers and expanded group discussion.
rich altieri38646.314375

What Don said: "Oh, for me, I could do a weekend seminar, but would never have time enough (or money) for a full week event. Just can't happen."

A weekend seminar in a regional location would be the best shot for me to attend.

You could present a week-long course, then break it up and present essentially the same material regionally in a series of weekends, depending upon the level of interest.

_________________
D..

OK, Make it George Lowden over in Belfast and I'll cancel everything to be there, about a year should be enough time to worship at the feet of the 'Master'. Still the best.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I could be crazy enough to save up and travel across the Atlantic for something like this! No I'm not a millonaire, but transatlatic flights between major cities is often cheaper than going somewhere farther south on the European continent. Not that it's an option, I haven't been able to locate anything like this over here, which is why I would consider it. It would mean I could not afford going to the ASIA symposium or the GAL thing, so it would have to be REALLY good! The east coast would obviously be best for me (and I assume any other European). I realize I'm not the majority here tho...

But I would be interested if:

it was about a week long
it involved lots of shop time, hands on teching by (a) top notch luthier(s)
it was really specific in terms of subject
the subjects were at the "intermediate to advanced" level
was announced well ahead of time

Great idea, guys!

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

[QUOTE=Colin S] OK, Make it George Lowden over in Belfast and I'll cancel everything to be there, about a year should be enough time to worship at the feet of the 'Master'. Still the best.

Colin[/QUOTE]

But I like your suggestion too, Collin!

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I have books, and I have the web: I would not be willing to spend much to
watch a PowerPoint presentation, especially w/ a conference call for a
soundtrack (I find conference calls disorienting).

I mean no offense to Rob O'Brien & those who rely on such, but for me, a
still-picture presentation has to compete against existing printed matter:
there's a limit to how much tutorial information can be conveyed by still
pictures; a live demonstration (even on video) is better IMO by an order of
magnitude.

Hands-on, of course, is the best, but it's the hardest & most expensive to
arrange.

Why not? Then I can blame everything on the teachers!

I voted no but I would like to qualify that answer. I think that OLF works best as a forum and an information gathering place. It would becomre more like ASIA or GAL if it started organizing seminars. We already have ASIA and GAL and they both do a good job of that. We also have a close relationship to ASIA that I think we could strengthen. OLF is filling a need for a luthier's forum and I think that is why the ASIA forum is so dead. There is no need for another forum. They should just redirect there forum link here.
OLF, on the other hand, should coordinate any classes through ASIA or at least play up the ASIA affiliation. Announcing the time/place of a class on OLF is good and members of OLF can even do the planning organizing of the class. But, we should host the class under the ASIA banner. This practice is common in the computer industry. Many seminars are managed by interrested parties but they tout their association affiliation(s) and use those associations as a sanctioning body.

As for me personally, I doubt that I would travel to go to any of these classes. That is primarily because I live in New England and I have several good teacher who live only an hour away. If I need a lesson, I can arrange it myself.

Or just tape it all and put it on CD for us.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

[QUOTE=Mike Mahar] I voted no but I would like to qualify that answer. I think that OLF works best as a forum and an information gathering place. It would becomre more like ASIA or GAL if it started organizing seminars. We already have ASIA and GAL and they both do a good job of that. We also have a close relationship to ASIA that I think we could strengthen. OLF is filling a need for a luthier's forum and I think that is why the ASIA forum is so dead. There is no need for another forum. They should just redirect there forum link here.
OLF, on the other hand, should coordinate any classes through ASIA or at least play up the ASIA affiliation. Announcing the time/place of a class on OLF is good and members of OLF can even do the planning organizing of the class. But, we should host the class under the ASIA banner. This practice is common in the computer industry. Many seminars are managed by interrested parties but they tout their association affiliation(s) and use those associations as a sanctioning body.

As for me personally, I doubt that I would travel to go to any of these classes. That is primarily because I live in New England and I have several good teacher who live only an hour away. If I need a lesson, I can arrange it myself.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the feedback even though your answer is no. Your point about ASIA and GAL is valid. Bill Moll and I have discussed similar things for ASIA and I think there is an interest in explore this from their end too.

In my mind the OLF is a community, not just a forum, and as such, we should try to provide value to the membership in a variety of ways. I think the synergies we are trying to create with advertisers is a testament to that, and this would be another avenue.

I don't see this being in competition in any way with the GAL or ASIA symposia. If for no other reason because the luthier conferences are (for the most part) set up in more of a presentation format rather than a training excercise. I was picturing something much more hands on. And, secondarily, ASIA and GAL have to serve a much wider base of interests than what the OLF represents.

I try to get out and work with a luthier at least once a year in a hands on format. I am very much of a learn by watching and learn by doing person -- so I find this type of learning experince invaluable. I suspect that others are too, and we are trying to create additional synergies between our members needs and luthiers willing to share their time and experience with us.

Brock Poling38646.3822916667

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Rich, I like your idea about the computer based training. We are sort of thinking about something along those lines as well as the hands on training. Lance or I will talk more about that as our ideas firm up.

But thanks for your input. Your technology ideas are a direction we hadn't considered.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=MichaelP] [QUOTE=Dave-SKG] I don't think the location has much to do with it. Sure I'd rather be on a plane for 2hrs vs. 7hrs but if the course is worth it I'd be there. So a plane ride and hotel is the same pretty much wherever you go ( with some exceptions of course). I don't think many would be driving to the course. QUOTE]

I courteously disagree Dave. Some of us can not afford to fly to the east or west coast and attend a class but can afford to drive 600-1000 miles. I know flying is fairly cheap at times but from Odessa to LA round trip is in $750 range. That is a big chunk out of my budget[/QUOTE]

Michael,
I meant for ME it realy didn't make much difference. I just figured that for most people ( maybe I am very wrong) they would be flying to the location. That being the case...no difference to me whether it was in Georgia or Texas or Nevada etc. I certainly would LOVE to see a Course in Tampa...but I don't think we have anyone teaching in Florida. ( maybe Bennedetto would do one!)I assume the course(s) will be limited to those willing to teach and where they are located. So some will be able to drive and others like me forced to fly.
I really like the video idea...give the teacher and OLF a fee( of course) and get a video for those who can't attend.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
Ok.

Here is what I understand that I am hearing.

There is one faction that prefers a long weekend and a skills specific course. Perhaps intonation, or something like that.

And another group wants an intermediate class (topic tbd) and would attend if it were a M-F type of session?

It seems that the overwhelming majority of those who responded are interested. Keep giving Lance and I your feedback and perhaps we can see if we can't get something going.

And, if these are popular, perhaps we can begin to run them as interest and time permit.

[/QUOTE]

Brock,
I think the problem with the class length( how many days) is a factor of whether or not you are flying or driving. Those that fly in have no other travel time ( a few hrs) so they can take a five to seven day course. Those that drive may have a very long one or two day drive each way. ALso, If I am going to spend $1000 or more for Hotel and Air fare I prefer to spend a couple extra days (a week) vs. three days and then fly home. For me the longer stay makes the "daily rate" a better deal. The overall cost only increases by the daily hotel rate. Longer is better.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

yes, Dave I think you are exactly right. If the training is going to be hands on, I think there is a 99% chance we will have to go to where the teacher is.

Lance and I will talk about this over the weekend and talk to some luthiers next week and see if there is any interest from their side.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Dave I understood and I am sure a lot would rather fly. Did not mean to imply your opinon was wrong. but disagreed that nessasaraly most shared your thoughts.

From my location it would be very expensive to fly to either costal regins, attend a class, hotel room, meals, and rental car. I am sure it is the same for a lot of us in the south western part of the contry.

Just hoping we can set somthing up in south west, southern rockies or southern plans regin, a drivable didtance 300-1200 miles or so I would be able to attend one. If I have to fly to either coast. I am not likly to be able to pull it off

Michael,
I understood you exactly. I just wish I could drive and save some money. Everytime I go to one of these classes it costs a small fortune...Florida is a pretty big state and there never seems to be anything even vaguely close...that being said...I know that it would be nice to have something affordable and close to everyone. Perhaps many different locations/instructors can be had.
No offense intended or taken. Thanks Michael!

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] Michael,
I understood you exactly. I just wish I could drive and save some money. Everytime I go to one of these classes it costs a small fortune...Florida is a pretty big state and there never seems to be anything even vaguely close...that being said...I know that it would be nice to have something affordable and close to everyone. Perhaps many different locations/instructors can be had.
No offense intended or taken. Thanks Michael! [/QUOTE]

None taken Dave. by the way I use to live in Thomasville GA. and work in Talahassee (did I sp that right? ) any way I loved Nothern Fl. pretty close to a bass fisherman's wet dream (can I say that )

I hear that! I have thought of moving to Northern Fl. There are very many beautiful parts (including beaches) up in the No. part. Also thinking of Tennessee...some great property values. Two "l's" in Tallahassee...Did I spell Tennessee right? I kid Lance about his spelling but strugle with it myself all the time!

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] I hear that! I have thought of moving to Northern Fl. There are very many beautiful parts (including beaches) up in the No. part. Also thinking of Tennessee...some great property values. Two "l's" in Tallahassee...Did I spell Tennessee right? I kid Lance about his spelling but strugle with it myself all the time! [/QUOTE]

If you ever move to Tennessee let me recommend the Murfreesboro area. 35 miles south of Nashville just on the edge of the Cumberland foot hills. I did my college there. many moons ago. The best year round climate anywhere. 4 seasons but none drastic.MichaelP38646.5806828704

I would be most interested in the week lonf format for a class. Things like neck carving/setting, binding, inlat etc. would be the most appealing to me.

I am with Michael on the travel thing. It isn't exactly inexpensive to fly out of OKC either. Maybe if we could keep the cost of the class down by guaranteeing x number of participants, the cost of the travel wouldn't be so bad.

The classes on DVD would also work for me, but I would prefer hands-on training.

Brock, have you asked Frank if he would be interested in something like this?

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars